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Outback Inverter replacement/ upgrade
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Good morning all,


New to the Selene family here but have been aboard our Selene 53 for over a year now and couldn’t be more in love with her.


Currently out on the hook for a Thanksgiving raft up and working my way through some power issue. Through some ongoing troubleshooting i believe our parallel Outback inverters are starting to show some signs of end of life (dropping bank voltage dramatically overnight without any obvious heavy loads). Since these are likely original to the boat I was looking at replacing them with a Victron setup. Either a single Quattro 12/5000 (and some associated rewiring) or direct replacement with x2 MultiPlus-II 12/3000.


Curious if anyone has made this change or something similar and has any tips/pitfalls to avoid.


Richard,  I've attached a picture of my new Victron setup. 

John Zimmerman 
I have the very likely same setup as John. I have same 24v 5000 watt Quattros set up as split phase. My picture would look same as his. I believe my Quattros have something slightly wrong. Even in total isolation they make slightly noisy power. Been working with electrician and we intend to try and get them replaced by Victron. They are great choice tho

Corey
5393
Sent from my iPhone

Interesting you have the 24v set up. I’m assuming some models were built on a 24V system while others on 12V?


ours is most certainly 12V

Sorry
This is better....





Hi Richard:

I replaced my factory-delivered Mastervolt Inverter/chargers a few years ago with a pair of Victron Quatro 24/5000's running in split phase mode (i.e. 240V across the pair of inverters, 120V from each inverter). Love the setup. Installation was not trivial, but not terrible. I did it myself.

One question I have from your post:
What makes you think that the Outback inverters are the issue? You said that the house battery voltage is dropping dramatically overnight. This is a common sign of a house bank that is getting tired. The internal resistance of the batteries goes up and their terminal voltage falls off much faster than it should. That's exactly what was going on with my house bank this past summer. I was pretty sure it was my house bank (more on that at another time), and so I have embarked on a project to replace the AGM house bank with new Victron NG batteries. Dylan and Jarad Hildebrand are doing the work. I would have been totally fine doing it myself EXCEPT that getting 3,000 pounds of old AGMs out of the boat was just not in the cards for my 70 year old body. :-)

Jarad is doing a great job. He's about 80% done.

If you're interested in following along with that project, I've been doing a blog post on it: https://seleneowners.org/content.aspx?page_id=2507&club_id=849970&item_id=5813&pst=29970

Mark


Thanks Mark I’ll take a read!


We’ve had this problem as long as we’ve had the boat and I first suspected the batteries (even tho they were replaced in 2021). I independently tested each battery and only found 1 that failed; which I’ve since removed from the bank.


I’ve zeroed in on the inverters since I’ve noticed that if cut them off at the isolation switch, I see a noticeable jump in voltage on the bank. Reading (ex: 12.1V with them on, 12.44V once they’re isolated). We’ve got one more night on the hook before returning to start the work week so today I’ve got the inverters completely off to see how the bank performs without them to hopefully rule the batteries out.

Hi Richard
I would reccomend 2 x Victron Inverter Chargers -  24v/5000w/ (and most importantly) 120amp charging.
1. 10,000w of power will run the whole boat. We found that 1 x 5000w inverter would not handle the start up power of the Cruisair AirCon units. 
2.  2 x Inverter chargers give you redundancy. The Victron software pairs the inverters and should you have a breakdown it’s easy to change one to stand alone.
3. Should you wish to change to LiPo4 in the future (and I do think that’s the way forward), you would benefit from the extra charging ability of 240amps. The LiPo4 will soak up the amps and you will have much less generator run time.

I would always go Victron with a Cerbo controller. The ability to check and control the banks remotely is great when the boat is laid up. Also the ability to start and stop the generator when the bank is low and turn off when high is a game changer for us.

Best Regards
Garry Ball


Hey Richard:

Quoted Text


One question I have from your post:

What makes you think that the Outback inverters are the issue? You said that the house battery voltage is dropping dramatically overnight. This is a common sign of a house bank that is getting tired. The internal resistance of the batteries goes up and their terminal voltage falls off much faster than it should.


well Mark…. You’re not wrong! With the inverters off last night we saw clearly there are issues with the bank itself that need replacing. Believe I’m jist going to take the opportunity to upgrade the whole system to support the Victron monitoring.


After some research it seems like a lot of the 53s, especially the early 2000 models were 12V boats. While we’re not gearing up for big cruising in our immediate future I’m thinking I’ll hold off on the full update to a 24V Lithium upgrade and settle for something more of a bridging solution for the more moderate trips and anchorage that our in our future until retirement.


Initial thoughts are x8 Victron AGM 12V 240AH direct replacements along with a Multiplus-II 2x120 and cerbo. Still toying around with the inverter size, don’t want to short change us; but in SoCal waters, we’ve got the benefit of not needing to run the aircon or heat at the dock, let alone on the hook.


I’m sure I’ll be spending some time reading about your upgrade next. Unfortunately at 37, lugging around 3000lbs of batteries is in my future!

Richard:

Well.....I'm glad you got to the bottom of that! Yes, my 2004 50 and John & Kathy Youngblood's 2004 53 were both 12V boats. It was right about that time that they switched to 24V.

You could just do a Lithium upgrade and stay 12V, but I hear what you're saying. Keep in mind that you'll either have to change the engine and generator starting system or keep two different system voltages. Not an easy choice.

I'll definitely put out a more complete report on the Lithium upgrade when we're done.....

For now, the focus is on knee surgery that happens tomorrow morning. Knee replacement. So I won't be very mobile for at least 2 weeks....

Mark


First of all, I hope this finds Mark recovering nicely and enjoying all the wonders of modern medicine!


fully committing to my upgrade project I was looking at cable runs and was curious what the group has come across


looking behind the port side electrial panel in the Pilothouse I can see a few cable runs built into the boat and seemly perfect for where I’ll need the connections from the inverters in the commissary and the shunt in the engine room to come from. Photo attached for reference.


Ive explored the run along the port side from the commissary to the galley. But nothing forward of the galley and into the pilothouse. I’m assuming maybe behind the cabinets in the master? If anyone has any experience on where these runs come out at, it could sure save me a lot of tearing compartments apart.


cheers!

Rick

Hey Rick:

Thanks for the kind thoughts/words. Yep. I'm about 20 hours out from the surgery and doing pretty well. The first couple of days are the most painful, but we seem to have it fairly well under control. Then the real fun (NOT!) begins with physical therapy to restore range of motion.

One thing I ran into with my Victron Quatro upgrade is that those inverters will not accept 4/0 cable on the DC side. They actually intend for you to use double 2/0 cable. So.....somewhere you'll need to transition to/from double 2/0 cables (obviously, with matched lengths). Give that a little thought as you plan the project.

Mark Tilden
Selene 60 "Koinonia"'


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